The Prison System

Athens

Member
Member
#41
Lsrp is having a debate wherein prison times will be dynamic to whether you're online or offline at the time. For instance, if you're arrested and prisoned for about 4 hours, if you log off that time will multiply by 4 so it would be 16 hours while offline which makes it possible to run your sentence while offline. The two timers work in unison, so if you're offline for 4 hours and return you'll only have to do 3 hours while logged in (or another 12 while logged off).

As for something like medieval community service, they shouldn't be paid. I think there should be a very high risk of death (CKs) for acts such as treason if caught, as it was in real life. Prison life could consist of cleaning up literal shit left behind by the nobles and performing chores such as farming, unpaid.
I think this will just turn into a more OOC jail with jail time like that like any other server where players will just /q and hop off for a day or AFK and this will turn the dungeons into a wasteland. There is nothing to work for or achieve if players don't at-least receive a small reward for their work, there is no way you'll convince people to farm or do work unpaid otherwise you'd be forcing them to RP that which is not fun for both sides. If you do this I guarantee whoever gets thrown in prison will just or people will just rage quit to avoid being thrown there. Maybe the guards themsleves will have a shitty time. In conclusion we're here to have fun not to be realistic medieval simulator 2018.
 

Reyo

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
#42
I think this will just turn into a more OOC jail with jail time like that like any other server where players will just /q and hop off for a day or AFK and this will turn the dungeons into a wasteland. There is nothing to work for or achieve if players don't at-least receive a small reward for their work, there is no way you'll convince people to farm or do work unpaid otherwise you'd be forcing them to RP that which is not fun for both sides. If you do this I guarantee whoever gets thrown in prison will just or people will just rage quit to avoid being thrown there. Maybe the guards themsleves will have a shitty time. In conclusion we're here to have fun not to be realistic medieval simulator 2018.
People get paid with food to sustain themselves within prison or else their life expectancy can be at risk of illness/ disease in the long term. Slave work wasn't paid for, but the previous statement in relation to food solves this issue imo.
 

Major Dedek

Supporter
Supporter
Member
#43
To me, the core of roleplay has always been being able to interact with others. Relying on a "script-based" escape seems like a subtle way to disincentive interaction through text. It may be fun for the majority of the "sa-mp" player base or "unique," but it's my opinion and I'm just explaining why.
How does it not allow you to interact with others? On the contrary, there can be a system where team work is needed to escape. Escapes could vary on the basis of skills that people within the escape group have. Does plant system break your RP experience because you want to roleplay planting somewhat differently than it is done through the system? Is a system of tree planting terrible because someone could decide to not RP it? System like this gives players autonomous way to escape, as opposed to a system where you have to contact staff to validate that you are not a complete idiot unable to properly roleplay.

You want to rely too much on the script. The script is there to make the roleplaying experience run smoothly. Not completely replace it.
This system does not replace roleplaying experience. It gives players a way or ways to escape from prison without need to contact staff.


Why is this particular system to be based purely on a /me /do commands is beyond me. Do you guys even realize that this server will have things such as a skill tree system?
 

otaku

Member
Member
#44
How does it not allow you to interact with others? On the contrary, there can be a system where team work is needed to escape. Escapes could vary on the basis of skills that people within the escape group have. Does plant system break your RP experience because you want to roleplay planting somewhat differently than it is done through the system? Is a system of tree planting terrible because someone could decide to not RP it? System like this gives players autonomous way to escape, as opposed to a system where you have to contact staff to validate that you are not a complete idiot unable to properly roleplay.
I would argue that it can be harmful. Relying solely on the script encourages a linear way of thinking, and roleplaying. I imagine there's only so many alternatives you can give to players with "tools," "skills," most would just want to get it done once the novelty wears off. Players were left to their own devices, and imagination with how they would want to approach scenarios. A scripted-prison escape defeats the purpose of me having to think differently from what I'm presented.

Even if this system is more convenient for a majority of players; the point is that those who choose "text" will fill a niche. Some would opt for a little more depth, or even freedom. Staff acts a balance between realism and far-fetched, but from what I'm reading this system wants to do way more than just that. There is no guarantee that within weeks, or months, the "escape" will still have the same appeal or convenience to players.

Color me old fashioned but even on Owl and sa-mp I was used to collaborating with others. Timezones, and having in to be in-game may be tedious but on sa-mp it feels like a universal experience. What it seems like is you want to do things differently, eliminate all the hassles we're used to, but contacting staff for approval is not something I believe needs fixing.
 

Athens

Member
Member
#45
How does it not allow you to interact with others? On the contrary, there can be a system where team work is needed to escape. Escapes could vary on the basis of skills that people within the escape group have. Does plant system break your RP experience because you want to roleplay planting somewhat differently than it is done through the system? Is a system of tree planting terrible because someone could decide to not RP it? System like this gives players autonomous way to escape, as opposed to a system where you have to contact staff to validate that you are not a complete idiot unable to properly roleplay.



This system does not replace roleplaying experience. It gives players a way or ways to escape from prison without need to contact staff.


Why is this particular system to be based purely on a /me /do commands is beyond me. Do you guys even realize that this server will have things such as a skill tree system?
So, how do you plan making people RPing these scripted situations unless they are good RPers. I mean if the script does the RP for them then all they would do is run, craft and type commands and suddenly we turned into the escapists (The game). So, what I could suggest doing is having it monitored by support since there would be far more support free and online to monitor more than admins/moderators. This way, it is guaranteed the player RPs creatively and not rely on the script or an NPC guard to get out.

And last time I checked this was an RP server not an RPG server where you have to rely on a skill tree, level up, escape prison by having a scrippted system to rely on and finally defeat the eater of the worlds by endgame. Come on. If we have to rely on a system where the game does everything while you only have to follow directions and craft tools then we should call this Medieval RPG.

People get paid with food to sustain themselves within prison or else their life expectancy can be at risk of illness/ disease in the long term. Slave work wasn't paid for, but the previous statement in relation to food solves this issue imo.
So, if I don't work then I die? I mean what if I AFK to avoid starving to death in a cell, at this point it's OOC jail and the system that we're discussing has no point. Or does AFK not work and players are forced to work to not have their character die forcing a player to mine 10 pieces of iron to not have their character die and lose their progress. At this point it would OOC slavery, this would be like admin jail but with the admin forcing you to type in chat "I will not do this again" 100 times to not have your character wiped.

What I am saying is pretty much with this system you will be enslaving both the player and the character.
 
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Major Dedek

Supporter
Supporter
Member
#46
I would argue that it can be harmful. Relying solely on the script encourages a linear way of thinking, and roleplaying. I imagine there's only so many alternatives you can give to players with "tools," "skills," most would just want to get it done once the novelty wears off. Players were left to their own devices, and imagination with how they would want to approach scenarios. A scripted-prison escape defeats the purpose of me having to think differently from what I'm presented.

Even if this system is more convenient for a majority of players; the point is that those who choose "text" will fill a niche. Some would opt for a little more depth, or even freedom. Staff acts a balance between realism and far-fetched, but from what I'm reading this system wants to do way more than just that. There is no guarantee that within weeks, or months, the "escape" will still have the same appeal or convenience to players.

Color me old fashioned but even on Owl and sa-mp I was used to collaborating with others. Timezones, and having in to be in-game may be tedious but on sa-mp it feels like a universal experience. What it seems like is you want to do things differently, eliminate all the hassles we're used to, but contacting staff for approval is not something I believe needs fixing.
How does this encourage linear way of thinking? How many ways out of prison could you think of? Several scripted possibilities + non scripted ways like bribing a guard, rebellion and you have a fine range of options. It doesn't really matter if they write few fancy /me commands or not. Just as when you draw out a weapon it can be an automated message + visual representation. I would even argue that scripted escape can be harder to pull out than non scripted one. We are not aiming to create "sense of novelty". While being original can be good, those who want this system want it because they view it as a better way. We do want to do things differently, but that doesn't mean everything is going to be turned upside down for the sake of doing things differently. I just think this way is the better one. You feel like your non scripted way is better but thats just because you are used to it. Same argument about not having enough RP freedom can be made about any scripted system like jobs, drugs etc.
 
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Major Dedek

Supporter
Supporter
Member
#47
So, how do you plan making people RPing these scripted situations unless they are good RPers. I mean if the script does the RP for them then all they would do is run, craft and type commands and suddenly we turned into the escapists (The game). So, what I could suggest doing is having it monitored by support since there would be far more support free and online to monitor more than admins/moderators. This way, it is guaranteed the player RPs creatively and not rely on the script or an NPC guard to get out.

And last time I checked this was an RP server not an RPG server where you have to rely on a skill tree, level up, escape prison by having a scrippted system to rely on and finally defeat the eater of the worlds by endgame. Come on. If we have to rely on a system where the game does everything while you only have to follow directions and craft tools then we should call this Medieval RPG.



So, if I don't work then I die? I mean what if I AFK to avoid starving to death in a cell, at this point it's OOC jail and the system that we're discussing has no point. Or does AFK not work and players are forced to work to not have their character die forcing a player to mine 10 pieces of iron to not have their character die and lose their progress. At this point it would OOC slavery, this would be like admin jail but with the admin forcing you to type in chat "I will not do this again" 100 times to not have your character wiped.

What I am saying is pretty much with this system you will be enslaving both the player and the character.
As I said above, there could be an automated message and visual representation, when you for example dig a tunnel. I really don't see a need for long fancy /me commands . I think I'm not speaking only for myself when I say that I dont play RP to draw enjoyment from writing letters but to experience and create stories of my character and the whole world around him. Be it either experience through only text or script. In this case, I think the latter is better, that is not to say that there isn't a void you can fill with RP even when there is a script.

I will also reply to your question for Reyo.
The idea behind it is that you can choose not to work, but you will be at a higher risk of getting illness and losing life expectancy. Therefore it is not about perpetual starving to death, but about decreasing the negative effects of being in prison. It is not decided yet, if you will have to be online during your prison sentence or not, so I can't tell how exactly would this work.
 

Major Dedek

Supporter
Supporter
Member
#48
The skill tree system is there so every character will have different abilities. One may specialize in this kind of forging and other one in other kind of forging. This will encourage people to trade and specialize in different skills than their comrades in for example faction. Whole server economy will be centered around players and player created items. This wouldn't work well, if anyone had capability to create everything.
 

otaku

Member
Member
#49
How does this encourage linear way of thinking? How many ways out of prison could you think of? Several scripted possibilities + non scripted ways like bribing a guard, rebellion and you have a fine range of options. It doesn't really matter if they write few fancy /me commands or not. Just as when you draw out a weapon it can be an automated message + visual representation. I would even argue that scripted escape can be harder to pull out than non scripted one. We are not aiming to create "sense of novelty". While being original can be good, those who want this system want it because they view it as a better way. We do want to do things differently, but that doesn't mean everything is going to be turned upside down for the sake of doing things differently. I just think this way is the better one. You feel like your non scripted way is better but thats just because you are used to it. Same argument about not having enough RP freedom can be made about any scripted system like jobs, drugs etc.
Okay, let me give an example. On LS-RP, you could have one of your characters be a barista, bartender or chef. There are those (I've met em) that would prefer writing detailed lines for everything they do. I prefer roleplaying that way, but in general people prefer more concise lines to save time. Others have companies with zero scripted support and grow through development, interacting and roleplaying, with other players. It feels like wherever you go, you'll always get these people.

You like your way of roleplaying, that's totally fine; but I don't agree with it being a majority. Even when you have a command for drawing out a weapon, some would type their /me first before using the command. Same goes for /engine, or even taking out your cellphone. I don't think everyone will embrace the idea of a puzzle or a mini-game to escape because an arguably handful of people find it lacking.

It's understandable you want to immerse your character with the world, but in general, I think players would prefer player-set interactions. Not everyone will come from sa-mp. My interest in this server is because it's medieval, and even then a friend sent me the discord link. It feels assuming to generalize your player-base months before release based on our or your personal experience. This is what I meant by freedom and a linear way of thinking; a "script" threatens creative freedom. Players should have control, not a "guide." Let players decide what's "fun" for them, not conjecture.
 
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theSerpent

Moderator
Moderator
#50
Okay, let me give an example. On LS-RP, you could have one of your characters be a barista, bartender or chef. There are those (I've met em) that would prefer writing detailed lines for everything they do. I prefer roleplaying that way, but in general people prefer more concise lines to save time. Others have companies with zero scripted support and grow through development, interacting and roleplaying, with other players. It feels like wherever you go, you'll always get these people.

You like your way of roleplaying, that's totally fine; but I don't agree with it being a majority. Even when you have a command for drawing out a weapon, some would type their /me first before using the command. Same goes for /engine, or even taking out your cellphone. I don't think everyone will embrace the idea of a puzzle or a mini-game to escape because an arguably handful of people find it lacking.

It's understandable you want to immerse your character with the world, but in general, I think players would prefer player-set interactions. Not everyone will come from sa-mp. My interest in this server is because it's medieval, and even then a friend sent me the discord link. It feels assuming to generalize your player-base months before release based on our or your personal experience. This is what I meant by freedom and a linear way of thinking; a "script" threatens creative freedom. Players should have control, not a "guide." Let players decide what's "fun" for them, not conjecture.
You keep mentioning other severs and their standards of roleplay, what I still do not understand is, what is the exact problem of introducing this escape system and why it conflicts with your text based roleplay, or character interactions. Sorry to break it to you but I'd rather focus on the majority where we can provide fun and introduce new ways of roleplay enjoyment and encourage newcomers, and also keep a high playerbase with constant entertainment. Whilst focusing on the majority this system anyhow is still fun for the minority text based immersed enthusiasts, now while saying this need I remind you again, once again if you haven't read any of the previous posts that explain this. The minority group of samp, the "text based roleplay fanatics" "still" can do "everything" you have literally "mentioned". This does not restrict anything for the hardcore text fanatics out there, this does not obstruct your character development or roleplay immersion. And this does not replace roleplay over script, you keep commenting on how this threatens your sweet sweet precious text rp where in reality it does not stop you from doing anything. The script is not a guide and doesnt represent linear way of thinking, you know what really threatens creative freedom? sitting behind a cell afking just like the previous servers you love mentioning.
 
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otaku

Member
Member
#51
You keep mentioning other severs and their standards of roleplay, what I still do not understand is, what is the exact problem of introducing this escape system and why it conflicts with your text based roleplay, or character interactions. Sorry to break it to you but I'd rather focus on the majority where we can provide fun and introduce new ways of roleplay enjoyment and encourage newcomers, and also keep a high playerbase with constant entertainment. Whilst focusing on the majority this system anyhow is still fun for the minority text based immersed enthusiasts, now while saying this need I remind you again, once again if you haven't read any of the previous posts that explain this. The minority group of samp, the "text based roleplay fanatics" "still" can do "everything" you have literally "mentioned". This does not restrict anything for the hardcore text fanatics out there, this does not obstruct your character development or roleplay immersion. And this does not replace roleplay over script, you keep commenting on how this threatens your sweet sweet precious text rp where in reality it does not stop you from doing anything. The script is not a guide and doesnt represent linear way of thinking, you know what really threatens creative freedom? sitting behind a cell afking just like the previous servers you love mentioning.
There are factions on these other servers that base their roleplay on being incarcerated or in the prison. It's not just limited to "afking" in the cell; there are people who genuinely enjoy roleplaying a convict or correction officer. I don't understand what's wrong with taking from your betters. These servers have been around for several years (through hardships) and have a regular playerbase, and I would argue community. They've been able to provide constant "entertainment" without the need for puzzles or minigames or relying solely on the appeal of what you're able to script.

You want to introduce "new" ways of roleplay enjoyment but that completely differs from what the general population is even accustomed to. It feels extremely silly because I cannot name one roleplay server that thinks one of the only ways to make a "escape" interesting or fun is through implementing a puzzle or mini-game.

There're standards for a reason; because they're what defines the experience. Even if you may find it subjective, there has always been a recurring theme of letting the players inhabit their experience. I would say then you may as well advertise as an RPG, because honestly, these things are to be expected. This fun is based on what you, and a handful of other people believe. Show me a source or a poll you've taken that factually guarantees a majority will find this fun. It's not been seen on any other acclaimed rp server, that's still up to this day. Yet apparently the "majority" are going to reel in their seats from excitement.

This is conjecture at best. Either you have a secret cabinet of players, or you're utterly convinced from confidence alone.
 

Major Dedek

Supporter
Supporter
Member
#52
There are factions on these other servers that base their roleplay on being incarcerated or in the prison. It's not just limited to "afking" in the cell; there are people who genuinely enjoy roleplaying a convict or correction officer. I don't understand what's wrong with taking from your betters. These servers have been around for several years (through hardships) and have a regular playerbase, and I would argue community. They've been able to provide constant "entertainment" without the need for puzzles or minigames or relying solely on the appeal of what you're able to script.

You want to introduce "new" ways of roleplay enjoyment but that completely differs from what the general population is even accustomed to. It feels extremely silly because I cannot name one roleplay server that thinks one of the only ways to make a "escape" interesting or fun is through implementing a puzzle or mini-game.

There're standards for a reason; because they're what defines the experience. Even if you may find it subjective, there has always been a recurring theme of letting the players inhabit their experience. I would say then you may as well advertise as an RPG, because honestly, these things are to be expected. This fun is based on what you, and a handful of other people believe. Show me a source or a poll you've taken that factually guarantees a majority will find this fun. It's not been seen on any other acclaimed rp server, that's still up to this day. Yet apparently the "majority" are going to reel in their seats from excitement.

This is conjecture at best. Either you have a secret cabinet of players, or you're utterly convinced from confidence alone.
People may base their whole RP around prison on other servers, but these servers are very different from a server set in 11th century where there is nothing like a life sentence and executions are quite a normal thing. These servers have been here for some time but that does not mean nothing else works. That's like saying tribal form of goverment is best because it has been here for some time and it worked. You still fail to see how a scripted system could be incorporated into RP. It seems to me, that you expect to see a super mario mini game.

Standards are not some universal rules. This server is already different because of its setting. Does that mean players will be scared to come here just because it is different from their years long experience? Well, if someone refuses to try out something new then he should stick to his old ways.

We are apparently expecting people to "reel in their seats from excitement" and you are clearly expecting them to do the opposite. Please provide us with a poll you've taken that factually guarantees a majority will find this system unacceptable.

How ironic that someone who argues for text based escape only, because of creativity is the one saying that servers should not differ and try out new things. That's a very creative process I can tell you. You basically want this server to be LSRP with swords and axes.

It feels extremely silly because I cannot name one roleplay server that thinks one of the only ways to make a "escape" interesting or fun is through implementing a puzzle or mini-game.
I assume that then there is no such a thing as innovation, because you can't use something that hasn't been tried out before. Please use logic next time you try to offensively attack someone's idea.
 

otaku

Member
Member
#53
I assume that then there is no such a thing as innovation, because you can't use something that hasn't been tried out before. Please use logic next time you try to offensively attack someone's idea.
So you see a puzzle or mini-game or anything remotely script reliant as "innovative?" That's something you'd find straight out of an RPG, or fun server. You can argue all you want about there not be universal rules, but I assure you, roleplay has a general definition and it does not involve a majority of the escape proposals above.

There is no need for a poll, go on RCRP, Owl, or LS-RP any of these "other servers" and tell me if you'd find anything remotely close. You say try out something but imo; if this is the general direction of the server it simply isn't "roleplay." It's an RPG. Thirst and hunger...?

I didn't say I want this server to be LS-RP. They're a server on the very same platform you're based. It's only logical to bring them up seeing as they've been around for the infancy of sa-mp and a decade. I did say that some people won't come from sa-mp and may be interested only because of the medieval setting. GTA, isn't the only game you can play on in a medieval setting. Hell, even mount and blade has a "hardcore" roleplay server. Do you think you can't learn from servers or people with more experience?

You still fail to see how a scripted system could be incorporated into RP
Believe me, there are some scripted systems I'd vouch for in a heartbeat. But these scripts enhance the experience. You're not aiming to "enhance," you're aiming to excite. You want to make things fun, based on what seems like obvious speculation and estimates. These ideas come from creativity because we have a goal in mind, not to appeal to the majority because it's going to be "fun." Would you want to rely so heavily based on what other people are going to "think" will be fun to brainstorm your ideas?

I don't see any innovation in trying to grandstand or appeal to the masses when the server hasn't even released yet. I don't mean to be rude or come across as offensive, we both obviously have a difference of opinion.
 

theSerpent

Moderator
Moderator
#54
There are factions on these other servers that base their roleplay on being incarcerated or in the prison. It's not just limited to "afking" in the cell; there are people who genuinely enjoy roleplaying a convict or correction officer. I don't understand what's wrong with taking from your betters. These servers have been around for several years (through hardships) and have a regular playerbase, and I would argue community. They've been able to provide constant "entertainment" without the need for puzzles or minigames or relying solely on the appeal of what you're able to script.
You can still do all of that, why do you continue to ramble about such things when that will be available, how many times do I have to remind you. Stop rambling about what other servers do, because I really don't care what they do and no they're not our 'betters', whatever that means?

You want to introduce "new" ways of roleplay enjoyment but that completely differs from what the general population is even accustomed to. It feels extremely silly because I cannot name one roleplay server that thinks one of the only ways to make a "escape" interesting or fun is through implementing a puzzle or mini-game.
Just because they're not accustomed to the typical medieval setting, and to what we're brainstorming and still yet coming up with different ideas for a scripted escape system does not mean they cannot get comfortable with that overtime, because i'm sure they're accustom to constant deathmatch oh yess... and I'm still not sure what you're talking about, when you say puzzles and minigames I really do wonder what you imagine here, are you imaging tetris? Though I'd definitely enjoy that in a medieval server.

There're standards for a reason; because they're what defines the experience. Even if you may find it subjective, there has always been a recurring theme of letting the players inhabit their experience. I would say then you may as well advertise as an RPG, because honestly, these things are to be expected.
This literally is an RPG so I don't know what you're talking about, and so are the previous servers you keep on mentioning for some odd reason.

This fun is based on what you, and a handful of other people believe. Show me a source or a poll you've taken that factually guarantees a majority will find this fun. It's not been seen on any other acclaimed rp server, that's still up to this day. Yet apparently the "majority" are going to reel in their seats from excitement.

This is conjecture at best. Either you have a secret cabinet of players, or you're utterly convinced from confidence alone.
The statistics are there, just join any popular roleplay server and see if you survive without being scripted. Because scripting is fun! Or do they roleplay their every shootout? ls-rp and whatever server you keep mentioning has a probable amount of 80 percent and up of constant deathmatch which is script related, surprise surprise.
 
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theSerpent

Moderator
Moderator
#55
I didn't say I want this server to be LS-RP. They're a server on the very same platform you're based. It's only logical to bring them up seeing as they've been around for the infancy of sa-mp and a decade. I did say that some people won't come from sa-mp and may be interested only because of the medieval setting. GTA, isn't the only game you can play on in a medieval setting. Hell, even mount and blade has a "hardcore" roleplay server. Do you think you can't learn from servers or people with more experience?
How is it at all logical to bring ls-rp into this, completely different setting and it makes no sense whatsoever. If we expect players to come from mount and blade, then all the more reason to add such scripts if we are expected to get players from such games?

Believe me, there are some scripted systems I'd vouch for in a heartbeat. But these scripts enhance the experience. You're not aiming to "enhance," you're aiming to excite. You want to make things fun, based on what seems like obvious speculation and estimates. These ideas come from creativity because we have a goal in mind, not to appeal to the majority because it's going to be "fun." Would you want to rely so heavily based on what other people are going to "think" will be fun to brainstorm your ideas?
Here we go again, there is nothing wrong with exciting, and this is also enhancing for your needy immerse driven player.

What is at all the point of scripting anything, they add nothing to your text fanatical driven immersion apparently.
 
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otaku

Member
Member
#56
I don't see the point in going back and forth about what seems like our ideals. As you said the point of this thread was to introduce "new" ideas, something we've derailed from. I'd just like to end things as is and not turn this into an active topic.
 

Reyo

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
#57
@otaku

I can see where you're coming from and I respect your opinion on this matter. You like to keep it simple and iconic to the good old days.

When I first opened this thread I hadn't thought about anything related to escaping. Instead, my focus was to add livelihood through mapping and modeling and perhaps some lore in it all. There's already plenty of features we discussed and agreed on that can improve the way prisons are utilized.

Let's stop dribbling the ball between each other and focus on a mutual conclusion for this system.

I believe that preserving good roleplay should be a norm. I can't entirely say that I am for an escape system nor that I dislike it. Therefore as a neutral party, I restrained myself from posting to hear how this conversation can unfold. Both sides said some interesting points and it's respectable to say the least. With that being said a fair conclusion to this argument is: To incorporate small elements of the "escape system" whilst still preserving the freedom for roleplay.

  • Instead of telling people you can escape only through x and y options we should allow them to roleplay it however they want. But yet again this requires some supervision.
  • I'd also include a variation of escapee interiors and possibilities so that when someone attempts to escape their environment can be set to the one best described.
  • A command that automatically justifies the amount of guards online and whether you are set to engage or not. Also requires staff supervision.
  • Also something we forgot to mention before and that is utilizing interesting and informative textdraws and the ability to play one of the many board games with other players.

But at the end of the day, most of these points fall down under staff supervision so scripted systems are somewhat justified and those are my thoughts on that, however unsure.
 

Dignity

Manager
Staff member
Manager
Developer
#58
I understand the reasoning behind it but I really do not like staff supervision...

The admin spectating probably doesn't give a shit / afks anyways 95% of the encounter.

I've only read some replies not all of them because it looks like quibbling going back and forth but what's wrong with incorporating RP opportunities for those that want it and scripted opportunities (escape script) for those that want that?
 

knppel

Member
Member
#59
I'll spare you guys quotes of yourselves and refer to the op mostly.
As for the background, let me mention that I have actual experience at dungeon/prisoner management in warband online, where things ran damn differently than on lsrp or other modern day samp servers.

IC as well as OOC there are major differences to take into account, the primary ones being the absence of a federal law and a generally applying penal code in medieval times- justice was, if at all, up to the local nobility, both in the case of semi-autonomous warlords ruling over their "turf" and simply had the power to judge the locals, as well as nobles appointed by a King somewhere else with their lands, and thus being the legal representatives of the crown.

Thus, and this is also how we handled this back in warband, every local noble that claims to mean something, and like owns a castle or a big city, will have a dungeon there, because they might arrest people on their land (with legal cause for crime, out of boredom and cruelty or because it's politically opportune to have a hostage to blackmail neighbouring nobles- reasons may vary on that.)

In regards to the prison time mentioned- lacking a penal code and most of all, the general concept of Imprisonement as punishment for crime opposed to physical punishment or labour sentences (Historically, this is a rather new concept that came up on wide scale no earlier than the 1800's), the primary purpose of a dungeon was not to hold criminals until they "served their time" (as there was no time to be served really, lacking laws stating thus).

The idea was to lock people up and keep them from running away or causingdamage until they could be settled to their actual purpose:
-Kidnapped Nobles and occasionaly prisoners of war being held until ransom was paid, or a fitting prisoner exchange arranged
-Dangerous Criminals (Murderers, cultitsts, spies, High Treason was an important law) were held until their execution, if no one paid a ransom
-Harmless criminals (runaway serfs, chicken thieves etc.) were typically used in labour and not kept in dungeons constantly, see below

So unlike the purpose of modern time jails, which is to keep convicted criminals in for a time defined as punishment for their deed- a concept not present in the time we intend to play it, as mentioned!- the actual purpose of a dungeon in medieval times was simply to keep prisoners held in low regard for a short time until to decide what to further do with them. This had not only legal reasons, with nobles being judges on their land and thus "legally" being allowed to abduct people under accusations of whatever- granted they bring enough armed men along to enforce their law on the peasants!

It also had economic reasons. Food shortages and hunger were quite a thing back in the day, and feeding a whole lot of people who bring no profit at all in a prison is costly. A Lord in war will usually first feed his fighting men. And even in peacetimes, it is not very productive to use the hard working populace to feed the scum feasting in a prison cell!
The most popular solution for this by far was ankle shackles. It kept prisoners from running away from literally every job: Mining, harvesting, hell, you could even chain a human to a bench in a galley, ensuring he will sink along with the ship if it does!


-So, what does this tl;dr leave us with on what I'd suggest?

1. Skip the timer and prison sentences. People got tossed in holes back then, and I'd suggest to simulate the system like that. Compared to my lsrp experience I've found out this highly encourages interaction between guards and prisoners, also, as the prisoner relies on the guard to get out of his cell in any way (Vice versa it's up to the guard captains and nobles to ensure the guards have a motivation to deal with prisoners, one way or another...). Actual court was usually reserved for either show trials or investigations on nobles who had enough armed forces backing them to demand a trial at court.

2. Some sort of breakout ways are important. On the best warband maps, literally every castle, and thus dungeon, had some sort of half-secret pathways, and warbands mapping and scripts were comparably limited to what we have here. Unseen escapes, or of course alerts and chases in tunnels and secret paths (sewers?) are amongst the most thrilling things to play out naturally.

3. Give every Lord their prison cells in their castle, give the city watch prison cells on their own, and even whoever just holds a ruin or some bandit camp in the forest will have a cage for a valuable prisoner that might be worth a ransom. This is also incredibly useful as it allows factions to interact via kidnapping which was quite a huge economy back then (ever heard of Richard Lionheart?).

4. Make ankle chains to slow down movement of people wearing them when forced to mine so they can't chicken-run from the guards. Cuffs are bad, keeps people from mining!
 
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