What's new

The Prison System

Bone

Preacher of Love
Moderator
The Crown
#21
Work camps, Serfdom... what’s the difference? What you are literally getting at is what I suggested. Jobs are script wise, won’t have to role play as much if they don’t want too. Escaping is up to them, they can escape from the inside of a dungeon if they have what it takes (bribed guard, for example.)

Just as you said though, not every player is a role play enthusiast even though this is a role play server, if they do not wish to do so then they may sit in their dungeon. What else would you have them do besides do manual labor (Serfdom)?
 

theSerpent

Moderator
Moderator
#22
Your guard system is flawed, we can't entrust guards to be the only way to get to work camps and if one is imprisoned whilst there are no guards how do they wish to lower their sentence in the time being, or rather what if their sentence was relatively large they should have the opportunity to escape because 'roleplay' will be absent and they'd just be forced to look at their screens when they could be productive, and as you said the only way they'd be able to get out is by 'roleplay related standards', which is a no go from my point of view because there'd be no guards to roleplay with, so an interactive script system is much more wiser where players have the opportunity to use necessary skills to escape or enlist themselves to work camps. so in hindsight having open areas in prison where work camps are also linked (like prisons in mining camps) where the person is chained with shackles and forced to do labour, with also having the opportunity to escape if they wish to (however doing so raises their 'notoriety') will be a more liked system by the majority because it keeps them productive instead of going afk in a cell. We want to keep players on the server even if that means they're in prison they still have something to look forward to, we have to see both sides of the spectrum here and make sure these are not overlooked.
 

Reyo

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
#23
Interesting point fellas, I'll be compiling a list of features I had in mind along with yours and we can continue the discussion further from there on (if necessary).
 

Athens

Member
Member
#24
Honestly, players are supposed to have something to do while in prison. It isn't guarenteed that there will always be a player guard online. Even then, the guard guarding prisoners will not always have fun or if it's an NPC then we're turning the prison into a roblox jailbreak. So, in my opinion there should be a way to motivate players to be active, roleplay and etc.. which is jobs. Players aren't going to do jobs for free, they'll just tab out and wait for their sentence to end. There is hardly a way to convince rich players to do jobs in prison and not go afk. What I think should be done is allow players to earn some money from jobs and RP. If there is 3-4 guards on duty outside or inside the prison they can request an admin to begin the escaping proccess and finally, add a paying bounty system for a certain level which allows the rich players to pay off a bounty as a bail rather than be forced to what is for them ooc jail. If we're just going to base everything off realism and immersion then this server would be boring as hell, we're here to have fun as long as it doesn't ruin the medieval setting.
 

theSerpent

Moderator
Moderator
#25
There needn't be any admin supervision during the escaping process, there will be a script system in place and other alternatives that will validate the fairness in their escape. It's systematic and there does not need to be ooc surveillance.
 

Athens

Member
Member
#26
And are we going to make it with NPCs? Because there is no way to guarentee a guard will be online and guarding the prison and this way once anyone discovers the escape way it'll be shared and everyone will escape and prison will be pointless. An admin supervision is far better as it guarentees that there will be a guard online, that the playet actually rps escaping and that the guards will have a chance to go after him otherwise it's just an RPG experience of breaking out of jail and no RP will be invovled.
 

theSerpent

Moderator
Moderator
#27
If players want to roleplay their escape then so be it, we encourage it. But no admin supervision isnt necessary unless there is rulebreaking, the escaping process is better off being automatic and done by the players rather than having admins babysit and watch them and give access manually. it'll be chaotic and there isnt enough eyes to go around and players are better off doing what they do.
 

Dignity

Manager
Staff member
Manager
Developer
#28
I could make a NPC minigame where you have to sneak past guards who "patrol" the prison halls. If they spot you, you get sent in a tougher cell each time until you're locked in permanently and have to wait out your time.

In each cell there will be puzzles that allow you to get to the hall that's being patrolled. The end of this hall leading to... freedom.

Thoughts?
 

Reyo

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
#29
As we dive deeper into this conversation and explore main and alternative ideas, I think it's important that we take into account the facts, pros, and cons of what is being suggested. I admire your contribution to this discussion and value your thought on the matter. With this post, I intend to compile my suggestions and yours and structure a reasonable list of opportunities that would make the prison system enticing and enjoyable.


Facts
  • This is a video game and the important focus is to have fun and to enjoy yourself playing it.
  • Being stuck in a 4x4 cell for the entirety of your imprisonment time without options to enhance your experience is not fun.
  • Guards will not always be around to roleplay with inmates, this can be due to many reasons e.g. timezones, other activities and lack of guards.
  • We are punishing the character, not the player. Let's think rationally.

Uncertainty
  • The time for sentences is unknown yet and this should be discussed by the Faction Team/ player-council to decide on an appropriate time ruleset.
  • Should prison time decrease whilst you are offline/ on a different character?
  • Should the ruling duchy's vault be under effect if a mass of inmates escapes the dungeon? Giving the effect that duchies can suffer depending on the damage inflicted within their holding grounds considering they have to spend money to recover?

Compiled Suggestion List

Immersive Environment: Something which is a necessity is the environment in which inmates will be placed. To ensure top-notch quality and retain the minimum object count thus avoiding lag and streaming issues - it's best that the prison/dungeon interior is 3D Modelled.

Opportunity for exploration: adding more livelihood to the prison system can include the use of lore, secrets, puzzles, and room for discoveries.
e.g. a variety of secret sections that are unlocked through the use clues which are spread throughout the dungeon that involve the player into a mystery and story of discovery. Enticing the player to spend time on this mystery, to unravel clues which will lead him in and out of the dungeon and with this open doors to other hunts and so on.

Thirst & Hunger: should play an important role in sustaining yourself whilst in prison. The work you perform should reward you with limited amounts of food and water that can help you stay decently alive. If you dehydrate/hunger yourself this can lead to short-term problems and your life expectancy should be at high risk of illness and disease.

Serfdom: being able to work within the dungeon through mining or slave work and thus earn food that'll help you survive - given that hungering yourself should lead to your life expectancy being in a higher risk to illness and diseases.

Ability to escape: being able to escape through the use of teamwork, the crafting of tools, 'npc puzzles' and without the supervision of staff pupils. However, overtime guards should be able to patch the exploited spot within the dungeon and block a specific escape route until a new one is discovered/created.


This should be further discussed and formulated for greater balance.
 

Athens

Member
Member
#30
I still believe there should be a way for prisoners to escape legally without working or escaping illegaly. For example, once a player reaches level 15 they get the ability to pay bounties. Paying bounties decreases jail time. This could avoid rich players or nobles being afk as they don't wish to be wanted and don't want to be AFK.

Secondly, if there is going to be the ability to do jobs then I believe there is two ways this should be done, either by giving players small amount of cash which would help new players earn money they need without being handicapped by jail. The second way is by decreasing jail sentence with each job completed.

Third, I don't mind having mini-games to escape, but to do this I think players should have prison schedules. Depending on the agreed max time of player prison time. Players could be free out of the cell for 1 hour and the second hour they could be in the mass hall for food or lockdown. Each part of the schedule had a unique escape and the lockdown is the safest time to escape. If we are going to have NPCs then have them during the lockdown time only. This gives the RP guards a break and allow them to RP outside to change RP a bit, but while prisoners are out of cells the guards are players. Now, the mini-games that the player would escape in during that time wouldn't involve guards. So stuff like using the pickaxe for mining to dig a hole and escape.
 

Bluman

Royal Guard
Royal Guard
Member
#32
Lsrp is having a debate wherein prison times will be dynamic to whether you're online or offline at the time. For instance, if you're arrested and prisoned for about 4 hours, if you log off that time will multiply by 4 so it would be 16 hours while offline which makes it possible to run your sentence while offline. The two timers work in unison, so if you're offline for 4 hours and return you'll only have to do 3 hours while logged in (or another 12 while logged off).

As for something like medieval community service, they shouldn't be paid. I think there should be a very high risk of death (CKs) for acts such as treason if caught, as it was in real life. Prison life could consist of cleaning up literal shit left behind by the nobles and performing chores such as farming, unpaid.
 

Major Dedek

Ascomanni
Ascomanni
Member
#33
Am I the only one not liking the idea of a scripted escape-prison script? ... It should be all roleplayed.
Scripted escape ensures a smooth flow of the server. One doesn't have to contact staff when he wants to escape and that's a good thing. Just as you don't need supervision when doing scripted job or anything else. What's the difference? Is it that horrendous to let players escape after they've completed all the necessary steps? Escaping from prison isn't exactly a lottery win here, since you will get outlawed and most likely executed, if you get caught. Roleplay should not and is not about commands /me and /do - they are but a tools for creating our stories. Just as the purpose of a room isn't in its walls but in the void between them. Server script, in my opinion, should work as structure that allows players to freely experience RP without any external intervence unless there is a violation of the rules. Staff should therefore primarily work as a keeper of order, and not as a force without which RP is limited. Writing a few /me commands or bribing a guard really isn't some kind of divine roleplay. If you think that an escape should be done primarily through bribing guards and such things then I'm telling you that it does not ensure everything will be purely InCharacter. One can imagine a situation where some guard will constantly take bribes and just escort prisoners out of the dungeon like a taxi. While bribing a guard can be an option I dont think it should be the main way to get out.

I will further reply tomorrow.
 
Last edited:

otaku

Member
Member
#34
I'm going to say I agree with Jackey. It's a matter of opinion. A friend of mine said roleplay was "player and world interaction" because they mainly played MMOs and emphasized immersion.

Definitions are bound to differ from person to person, and I've met others who think of roleplay as a form of improv, because of their theater background or group writing, or even a collaboration between others. Not everyone has had the luxury of being able to script features into the game; some people come from platforms that are entirely text-based.

To me, the core of roleplay has always been being able to interact with others. Relying on a "script-based" escape seems like a subtle way to disincentive interaction through text. It may be fun for the majority of the "sa-mp" player base or "unique," but it's my opinion and I'm just explaining why.
 

theSerpent

Moderator
Moderator
#35
To me, the core of roleplay has always been being able to interact with others. Relying on a "script-based" escape seems like a subtle way to disincentive interaction through text. It may be fun for the majority of the "sa-mp" player base or "unique," but it's my opinion and I'm just explaining why.
Okay then please provide how solely text in it's entirety will work for the majority of players, I'm seeing nothing but your described definition of what 'roleplay' should be, and that relying on a scripted escape system will strip you of your text based roleplay. Oh but except relying on a scripted escape system will in fact not strip you of anything, you are still able to 'roleplay' as you wish, it is actually encouraged, I encourage it and I'm sure the rest of staff do too. Relying solely on text based roleplay will prove insufficient for the majority of samp's rp player base and seems counterproductive, please provide solutions to your roleplay reliant escape route that will not cause mayhem and constant teleportation and babysitting by staff.

In conclusion here are the answers to your pointers, you are still able to interact with cell mates and plan an escape route through roleplay if you wish. Relying on a scripted based escape system will actually not discourage roleplay, if anything it will encourage it, even if our introduction of a scripted reliant escape system is not your cup of tea, you are still able to sit back and plan your escape route through text based roleplay instead of taking the scripted route.

I haven't read anything from your post that provides any solutions as to how the majority of the server's players base will depend on text based role play without relying on staff to validate their fairness in escape.
 
Last edited:

otaku

Member
Member
#36
My post was meant to explain and elaborate on what Jakey said. Owlgaming, a server that had an upwards of 100 players, used staff regularly as intermediates for things like this. Could you argue it was babysitting? Yes. But it was far from mayhem or chaotic. I highly doubt that if you cater to a linear or systematic way, people will choose to write their way out.

I don't see why we have to provide a solution to something that has worked and continues to work. It's a viable option and has worked for a relatively large roleplay community. If you choose to disagree with it, that's okay, but that doesn't make it inherently flawed because it's wrong in your eyes. If you'd like to continue you can PM me, but I can see this adds zero value to the discussion.
 

Wilbur

Member
Member
#38
Scripted escape ensures a smooth flow of the server. One doesn't have to contact staff when he wants to escape and that's a good thing. Just as you don't need supervision when doing scripted job or anything else. What's the difference? Is it that horrendous to let players escape after they've completed all the necessary steps? Escaping from prison isn't exactly a lottery win here, since you will get outlawed and most likely executed, if you get caught. Roleplay should not and is not about commands /me and /do - they are but a tools for creating our stories. Just as the purpose of a room isn't in its walls but in the void between them. Server script, in my opinion, should work as structure that allows players to freely experience RP without any external intervence unless there is a violation of the rules. Staff should therefore primarily work as a keeper of order, and not as a force without which RP is limited. Writing a few /me commands or bribing a guard really isn't some kind of divine roleplay. If you think that an escape should be done primarily through bribing guards and such things then I'm telling you that it does not ensure everything will be purely InCharacter. One can imagine a situation where some guard will constantly take bribes and just escort prisoners out of the dungeon like a taxi. While bribing a guard can be an option I dont think it should be the main way to get out.

I will further reply tomorrow.
I think an OOC permission needs to be given by the administration as there would be involving a set of rules, as per example the number of guards online at that point in time.
 

Major Dedek

Ascomanni
Ascomanni
Member
#39
I think an OOC permission needs to be given by the administration as there would be involving a set of rules, as per example the number of guards online at that point in time.
Allowing escape only when certain number of guards is online can be easily done through script. Rules are relevant at all times and I dont understand why prison escape should require additional supervision.
 

Jakey

Moderator
Moderator
Member
#40
You want to rely too much on the script. The script is there to make the roleplaying experience run smoothly. Not completely replace it.
 
Top