[SCRIPT] Alchemy and Drug Creation

Athens

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#1




"Drug and Alchemy System"
by [Athens]
SCRIPT



Summary: Drugs are a thing server need. In order to cook drugs and medicine you must require to mix the correct herbs. The way it works there is 3 items to use when cooking herbs: Retort, mortar and pestle and crucible. There could be over 25-50 different herbs and other objects that can be used spread throughout the lands. The way to use it by mixing 2-3 herbs and using a retort or a crucible to finish it. This way creation of drug require experimentation and you can end up with different results that could be: a cure for a disease, a drug or a poison or most likely nothing and that way drugs could be limited to a single person or provider that doesn't share his recipe. Each drug would have it's own effects and would allow the player to use it and the drug that the player created can be addictive or non-addictive. . This way the game has a sense of mystery as nobody knows a way to replicate another player's drug and drugs aren't limited to factions. This is kind of similar to the alchemy system of skyrim, but without eating herbs to discover their abilities. Drugs mostly don't work in a game because players often don't feel the need or use for the drugs, the way to fix this problem was by addiction, however that mostly doesn't work as players will often avoid the drugs at all. With this drugs can have a mysterious feel with each one and as outcome drugs should be named by the player himself to avoid drugs having the same name and players knowing the drug from person A is the same as from Person B would ruin the mystery to it.


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Reyo

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#2
Dignity spoke of there being an alchemy feature but not in such depth as this. Your variation is interesting but Im unsure about the affects you mentioned.

Neutral vote for now.
 

Athens

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#3
Dignity spoke of there being an alchemy feature but not in such depth as this. Your variation is interesting but Im unsure about the affects you mentioned.

Neutral vote for now.
Which affects exactly? I'll remove the drug effects for now so that it can be decided by the development team instead.
 

Dedek

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#4
Alchemy system is going to be based on a skill tree and this idea of randomly mixing herbs is not exactly compatible with that. You want there to be a mystery behind composition of a potion. I ask, how long will this mystery last? People will eventually write down their recipes, and share them with friends. Thus when someone creates a new character, he will be able to instantly go and make potions, because he already did it on his previous character. This "mystery" is restricted to first "playthrough" of making potions. Veteran players will be able to start a new character and instantly make good potions while the new people will be at OOC disadvantage due to not doing it before.

Drugs mostly don't work in a game because players often don't feel the need or use for the drugs
Drugs/Potions will work here because they can cure a disease which can eventually lead to CK. You will also be able to make posions. Preserving your character and killing your foes, I see that as quite a motivation. I agree that there could be some effects when using drugs but leaving it to just roleplay isn't bad either.

  • Pain reduction (Players will have 20 health added as armor, but if the player loses the 20 health gained then it is reduced from the player's main health when drug effects are gone)
  • Motivation (The players has a slight speed boost).
Adding benefits that can help you in combat just doesn't work. People will become junkies and take drugs before every fight. And addiction will only make people not to use them at all. I think people would take addictive drugs/potions only when it can cure them from an illness.


Therefore, I argue that RPG like system based on a skill tree is a much better way to go. Every alchemist will be specialized at what he chooses to do. While the system of randomly mixing herbs could work in the beginnings, it would lose it's sense as the players would discover recipes and write them down so they can use them at any given time with any given character. There can be additions/tweaks to the skill tree system to make it more variable but this isn't it. Rather use your ideas to improve existing system of alchemy.
 

Athens

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#5
Alchemy system is going to be based on a skill tree and this idea of randomly mixing herbs is not exactly compatible with that. You want there to be a mystery behind composition of a potion. I ask, how long will this mystery last? People will eventually write down their recipes, and share them with friends. Thus when someone creates a new character, he will be able to instantly go and make potions, because he already did it on his previous character. This "mystery" is restricted to first "playthrough" of making potions. Veteran players will be able to start a new character and instantly make good potions while the new people will be at OOC disadvantage due to not doing it before.
Well first off, sharing recipes is pretty much ruining a player's business. The same way you wouldn't give cash to a random RPer. Secondly, this could be prevented by a simple way. Maybe the potion that the veteran player has created is good, but what he doesn't know is that it slowly causes a disease. The effects of the potion you create is not stated when you created. You have to test it on yourself or lab rats. So, for example you test a potion and boom you now have a cure for scurvy, but what you don't know is that it causes cancer to slowly appear and form which doesn't inform u until it's too late and thus making no 'good' potion. Just like IRL where some medicine would often have side effects and these recipes that the veteran players discovered could've been the reason why his old character died in the first place which makes the veteran player concept invalid in my opinion. Plus the sense of mystery is still there. You as a player have no idea what I'm giving you. You are given a custom named object with no stated effects unless I told you ICly. Go ahead and tell you how do you figure out what you're trying unless you see the stuff mixed yourself and you know the recipe to cook that stuff for all you know I could be giving you a poison to drink.


Drugs/Potions will work here because they can cure a disease which can eventually lead to CK. You will also be able to make posions. Preserving your character and killing your foes, I see that as quite a motivation. I agree that there could be some effects when using drugs but leaving it to just roleplay isn't bad either.

dding benefits that can help you in combat just doesn't work. People will become junkies and take drugs before every fight. And addiction will only make people not to use them at all. I think people would take addictive drugs/potions only when it can cure them from an illness.
Tell you something, look at some other servers where drugs are left to RP. It's often boring and people don't feel the need to do it. Like in one RP server, weed gives you like a minute of green and that's it with an addiction system. IRL people try drugs because they have adrenaline or going through emotional stuff or can't resist the will to do it, but you can't really relay the same stuff in a video-game where your character ends the same time your screen shuts. If we just didn't have any effects that actually benefited the player then the player would fully stay out of it and not have a reason to try it in the first place unless he's a very experienced roleplayer. Tell you something, imagine you as a videogame player I give you two things, a drug which gives a green screen and the rest is up to you with roleplay and you have a chance of addiction or a drug that gives you a boost in your in-game abilities and may give you a slight advantage in your next encounter so your character actually stays alive with a chance of addiction. We could also introduce the concept of overdose so players won't turn into junkies that are fully strapped with drugs and use it right before battles, take too much and say bai bai to your character, take too low and your character begins feeling withdrawal effects.



Therefore, I argue that RPG like system based on a skill tree is a much better way to go. Every alchemist will be specialized at what he chooses to do. While the system of randomly mixing herbs could work in the beginnings, it would lose it's sense as the players would discover recipes and write them down so they can use them at any given time with any given character. There can be additions/tweaks to the skill tree system to make it more variable but this isn't it. Rather use your ideas to improve existing system of alchemy.
Why not combine it with the skill tree? Players could have new abilities to create stuff as they improve in the skill tree. For example, you learn the ability to distill or the ability to use new equipment. Maybe the quality of the product improves as your skill improves and you unlock the ability to create new forms of the items you use in your alchemy like gases or crystals. I've stated your other points above.
 
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Dedek

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#6
Well first off, sharing recipes is pretty much ruining a player's business.
Perhaps you want to do this buissness with your friends or you actually care for them and would give them a recipe for the sake of loyalty.

Maybe the potion that the veteran player has created is good, but what he doesn't know is that it slowly causes a disease.
How long will the disease develop? Days, weeks? This would totally cripple process of experimentation because you would have to wait a certain period of time before doing next potion. How are you supposed to find a cure for something when you don't have the specific illness? It's not like you begin with all diseases. This makes it virtually impossible to find a cure for something. You have to be sick yourself to find out the healing effect, but then again if you get an illness and you experiment with potions to get a cure as fast as possible, you will, as you suggested, get backlash of diseases later. Also, how will you discover deadly poison recipes? Will you die and come back?


these recipes that the veteran players discovered could've been the reason why his old character died in the first place which makes the veteran player concept invalid in my opinion.
This only confirms the veteran player concept. The veteran player will know that this recipe killed him and will avoid it on his next character. And if the veteran doesn't know what caused it then the problem I described above arises.

look at some other servers where drugs are left to RP. It's often boring and people don't feel the need to do it.
I used the term drugs to describe both deadly and healing herbs/potions as these terms are interchangeable with the word drug. What I meant is that these healing/poisonous herbs/potions could have additional effects to their healing/poisonous capability.

Why not combine it with the skill tree? Players could have new abilities to create stuff as they improve in the skill tree. For example, you learn the ability to distill or the ability to use new equipment. Maybe the quality of the product improves as your skill improves and you unlock the ability to create new forms of the items you use in your alchemy like gases or crystals.
You would unlock the ability to experiment even more, but that still doesn't solve any of the problems I mention above.
 

Athens

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#8
Perhaps you want to do this buissness with your friends or you actually care for them and would give them a recipe for the sake of loyalty.
Alright, feel free to share it, but as stated before there are side-effects to every drug that you attempt to create. Sharing a recipe is kinda normal, its why we know today how something like meth is created. You could either share your recipe with friends and split up your business with them or keep it a secret and sell it by yourself, but it's kinda hard to discover something since there are large amount of combinations that could be made with the 25-30 herbs and 3 herbs per combination which most will result in no product. Only a few correct combinations could be discovered.

How long will the disease develop? Days, weeks? This would totally cripple process of experimentation because you would have to wait a certain period of time before doing next potion. How are you supposed to find a cure for something when you don't have the specific illness? It's not like you begin with all diseases. This makes it virtually impossible to find a cure for something. You have to be sick yourself to find out the healing effect, but then again if you get an illness and you experiment with potions to get a cure as fast as possible, you will, as you suggested, get backlash of diseases later. Also, how will you discover deadly poison recipes? Will you die and come back?
That's why you can use lab rats, get for example someone to test your stuff on, but in order to guarantee avoiding poisoning then herbs that are known to be toxic are far more likely to produce a poison. It's like using poison ivy in a recipe, you would be stupid to not expect really bad effects. It could be left for players to go out there and find their effects themselves when they interact with them (Which only causes RP effects to know what the plant is like). As for the experimentation, an IRL day is not the same as an in-game day like dignity told you on discord. Sometimes diseases will develop instantly and other times it would take two in-game days? Plus I think this makes it better as the players would have to document their discoveries rather than spend all of their time spamming herbs until they get something. And the end result could be perfect for the player as it can allow the player to sell it or perhaps an export system for merchants which allows them to sell their products off-shore and this will filter out drugs to avoid it overflowing the server. I still have no idea how the merchant system would work, but having a way to discard drugs from the system to avoid overflowing is good.


This only confirms the veteran player concept. The veteran player will know that this recipe killed him and will avoid it on his next character. And if the veteran doesn't know what caused it then the problem I described above arises.
Well, it's the same as if a veteran player CKs and they know all locations in the server. Isn't that technically the same advantage over new players? New players would start not knowing all locations and will have to discover it themselves. This isn't a problem since I think that there shouldn't be 'The Golden Recipe' that heals all diseases magically, there should be effects and side-effects to everything and the players would have to write it by hand or write on their PC to make sure they get the same exact recipe. Isn't that a bit painful for the player? It could also cause them to lose their entire knowledge of it if they lose their document. And veteran players can't just instant produce like factories. They would have to go out to the wild and find the herbs itself, gather a large amount and make a potion. To make it better, I think the herbs location should be randomized once it was picked two times however it stays in the same region. Like a plant would only spawn near Mt.Chilliad.

I can PM you on discord to discuss this rather than spam here.
 

Petros

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#9
I want to admit that Herbs and things like that were not easy and cheap to do, So you need to make a mechanism that only Dukes and merchants (basicaly people with wealth) be able to have access to herbs and drugs... And also Skill tree is RPGish, It breaks immersion too, Let's just stick to lvl limit and stuff like that... lvl limit should be high enough to make this unique skill rare. It gonna be totally historical inaccurate if we see lots of dudes with that skill in an European medieval island.
 

theSerpent

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#10
I want to admit that Herbs and things like that were not easy and cheap to do, So you need to make a mechanism that only Dukes and merchants (basicaly people with wealth) be able to have access to herbs and drugs... And also Skill tree is RPGish, It breaks immersion too, Let's just stick to lvl limit and stuff like that... lvl limit should be high enough to make this unique skill rare. It gonna be totally historical inaccurate if we see lots of dudes with that skill in an European medieval island.
all the more reason to keep it rpg style.
 

Dedek

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#11
I want to admit that Herbs and things like that were not easy and cheap to do, So you need to make a mechanism that only Dukes and merchants (basicaly people with wealth) be able to have access to herbs and drugs... And also Skill tree is RPGish, It breaks immersion too, Let's just stick to lvl limit and stuff like that... lvl limit should be high enough to make this unique skill rare. It gonna be totally historical inaccurate if we see lots of dudes with that skill in an European medieval island.
How come herbs are not cheap to do? You literally go to nature and pick up them or grow them yourself. Using herbs as a medicine was a common practice passed down from generation to generation. Only christian influence weakened this practice. I certainly don't see shamans require wealth to brew medicine.
 

Petros

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#12
You know I added the word "Wealth" as a parameter for script, we don't have anything like "Science" or "idealogy", so for limiting the number of practicers of this skill we must add a pragmatic parameter such as wealth and social class or we can depends on admin process, I saw something like this in other servers, You must apply OOCly to be able to teaching fightstyles to other players, we can do something similar about this case.
 

Conwell

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#13
Could be done like in the Kingdom Come Deliverance except with less in game animations due to SAMP limitations. Here's an example -
 

aristovky

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#14
something like the kingdom come system Conwell linked above could be very interesting, but rather weird on sa:mp, perhaps something more UI based? like crafting stuff in Minecraft, get the right combo and depending on your alchemy skills you create different potions and all that.
 

Conwell

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#15
it's easy to remake this with basic /useBELLOWS /useSANDGLASS and to add plants just do /addplant with a menu that would pop up and let you choose how many and what kind you want to add.
 
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